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Middle set on low board

BarleyBurnerBarleyBurner Posts: 9Subscriber
edited July 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
$1-$2 at the Venetian

I'm not sure if I played this hand horribly, or if it was just a cooler. The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning toward the former.

Villain 1 is an older guy in his sixties, in MP has ~$200
Villain 2 is on the BTN has $450
Hero CO has $700

Action limps around to me in the CO, I call with 33.
Blinds check, 7 ways to the flop.

Flop A 2 3 ($14)

Checks to V1 who bets out $10.
Folds to me, I call with middle set
BTN quickly raises to $30.

V1 calls. I think for a while about re-raising, decided to call.
(Should this be a raise here, or a call/raise?)

Turn 8 ($104)

V1 checks
I bet out $60
BTN calls
V1 chk-raises all in for $172 total.
I tank for a bit and call.
BTN tanks for a while and folds.

V1 shows 45o for a flopped wheel.

River 9

I really thought about folding on the turn, is this a bad call? Also is it better to just raise on the flop? It was a limped pot, so I didn't think I could get called by worse there, what do you think?


  • JKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    edited July 2016
    I personally would raise the flop although I don't think raising the turn is that bad of play. Yes in a limped pot a fold is possible but because it is so non standard to fold here because your hand is so big u really gotta be sure your beat so u need a fair bit of history with your opponent to know he is never overplaying aces up here or never has 22 here. Which I think is impossible to know about a random opponent at the Venetian so I am calling off here to and shaking off my bad luck.

    To answer your question about out of position 3 betting on the flop I am never doing that against a decent player cause it puts your hand face up and gives a decent player the ability to fold strong holdings. Only against the weakest rec players who are never folding after they have money in the pot do I like a small non standard raise or against someone capable of levelling into a call.

    My standard line is to raise flop then bet call off the turn and shake my head about the cooler.
  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    You have to raise the flop. An ace won't fold....they just don't at 1/2....and you really need to get more than $10 in on this street. In this case, the button did the work for you. Unfortunately, you can't raise his bet and still expect to be called by worse.

    On the turn, you have to call. You need low 20's% to call and against just a range of 22 and 45 you have 35%. Can't fold.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    Can I ask you why you didnt raise flop?? Lets start there..

    I see this many times with players who are starting out ..including me.. you think "I can find out where I am at a bit later" or " I have a monster" when in fact it either costs you money or you are already coolered.. This leads to you minimizing your win amount and still maximizing your lost..

    If you raise the flop.. and villain ships it.. You might be able to get away from middle set.. I am not saying you could at 1/2 but if you had say $700 and villain had the same then its something to think about..

    So again ask yourself why you didnt raise on the flop and go from there.. playing hands badly and then thinking why they were not optimally played is the first step to getting better..

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Our options OTF are lead out big or c/r. I don't think c/c should be a consideration.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    stayinschool said:
    Our options OTF are lead out big or c/r. I don't think c/c should be a consideration.
    He was led into OTF, how is he going to lead if someone already bet ahead of him? He can't c/r either, he is in position to the flop bettor.

    I think you played too passively on the flop. I would raise the flop lead to around $40. Having said that, it is still a cooler, in that the result might have still been the same in the end. Let's say you raise to $40, it folds to V1 and he smooth-calls. On the turn, he checks, you bet $65, he CRAI, you call off, same result.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    MB for some reason I read "Checks to V1" as assuming we checked and thought we were in SB

    Yea I like a raise
  • PBJTIME Posts: 338Subscriber
    Raise the flop all day. As played, this is 1/2, get it all in on the turn. You'll show a profit in the long run. This hand was just a cooler. Don't let it discourage you.
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