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Way ahead way behind when there are multiple draws.

mediumchris Posts: 2Subscriber
edited July 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Fairly basic spot but one I am never sure what to do in.

AQos in the bb at a 1-3 game. A bunch of limpers I make it fifteen when it makes it to me. I know this is probably frowned upon building pots oop with non premium but I feel as though it's been profitable for me due to the very weak player pool, but it does get me in trouble here. Input welcome there but more interested in the turn.

Anyways, 3 calls. 65ish in pot. Biggest stack besides me is 220 remaining, other guy has like a hundo. Flop is Q 5 6. I lead out 40. Call fold call. 180 in pot. Turn is a semi blank 3. Unless someone has something silly like 47. Now feel I'm in a way ahead way behind situation against made hands but am worried about straight and flush draws. What do you do here, first to act.

Comments

  • JKH Posts: 831Subscriber
    Bet at like 100to 120, u are only way ahead/ behind against 74 and that's possible but not something to worry about andasmall part of the range of hands u are against .... If u get raised u can evaluate but I would be looking to shove non heart/ 4 card straight rivers.
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    edited July 2016
    Pre is a pretty standard raise from the blinds with AQ when you have a limp parade, you're raising for value since their limping range includes weaker Ax.

    Flop bet should be sized a tad larger on wet boards so I'd probably bet $50/$55 for value.
    The 3x OTT does help/gives additional equity to some hands/ranges so AP $120/$125 looks good, probably bet/folding but it would depend.

  • mediumchris Posts: 2Subscriber
    edited July 2016
    Letmewin1 said:
    so AP $120/$125 looks good, probably bet/folding but it would depend.

    can you fold though at this point? He only has 60 left. So it's 60 to win 480 even though we are behind usually aren't there enough weaker Queens in there to call?

    I made it 110..he shipped and I puke called last 70

  • PBJTIME Posts: 336Subscriber
    In the BB with multiple limpers, I'm raising larger preflop, around $25.

    As played, on the flop with 65 in the pot and OOP, I think you can size larger, around $50.

    As played, on the turn with the pot about 180, you have to be concerned about giving your opponent a "reverse freeroll". If he has a flush draw, will you be able to check/fold the river? Let's say you bet 120 and he calls. The pot is now 420. If the flush comes in can you check/fold for 100 to win 520? For this reason, given these stack sizes, I think a shove on the turn is a reasonable play. Personally, I'll let the player have a small freeroll knowing I will pay them off because I want more value from my hand. I'd probably bet around 180. Just make sure they are not getting the proper odds to draw and you will make money in the long run.
  • JKH Posts: 831Subscriber
    mediumchris said:
    Letmewin1 said:
    so AP $120/$125 looks good, probably bet/folding but it would depend.

    can you fold though at this point? He only has 60 left. So it's 60 to win 480 even though we are behind usually aren't there enough weaker Queens in there to call?

    I made it 110..he shipped and I puke called last 70

    Yeh for 60 it's an awkward spot I am calling off as well what can you do I think u played it fine stacks are too short to fold
  • MastaC707 Posts: 95Subscriber
    Try to keep in-mind their stack sizes, if a normal bet is going to leave them a small amount left, just put them in. A lot of people will fold FDs on the turn to even small bets, and others wont for any size, know your opponent. But you are trying to get full value from worse Qx hands, so get it in on the turn. Also, there is room for debate about preflop sizing, but I dont think 15 is bad, larger could be better maybe. AQ is pretty much always a raise for value over limpers, in position or OOP, unless you have specific villain read on someone, like youre in the sb and the bb is crazy squeeze happy, or the utg player is a player who limp raises his premium hands but raises his other good hands, so you have a good idea that calling will either induce spazz from the squeeze happy player, or prevent the limp reraiser from getting away with his plan.

    Masta--
  • MikeG Posts: 989Subscriber
    This is not really the kind of hand people mean when they say WA/WB.
    Raising pre is fine. If anything, you could probably raise more. Whether we're counting AQ as a premium hand isn't really the question. The quesiton is whether it figures to be better (and dominating) against the limping range of the table and that answer is yes.
    On the flop, I'd bet 60 (to set up a turn shove).
    On the turn, I'd shove this card.

    If you get coolered by some set or some strangely played KK, then just brush it off as it just happens that way sometimes when you're playing 75bb poker and you flop TPTK.
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    mediumchris said:
    Letmewin1 said:
    so AP $120/$125 looks good, probably bet/folding but it would depend.

    can you fold though at this point? He only has 60 left. So it's 60 to win 480 even though we are behind usually aren't there enough weaker Queens in there to call?

    I made it 110..he shipped and I puke called last 70

    I'm calling off as well, sorry I didn't pay attention to stack sizes b4 posting but with shallow stacks I don't see other sizing we could use OTT on such a wet board.
    Sorry you lost but I don't think you made a mistake.

    by 1JKH
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    Bigger raise pre, bombs away post (bigger pre makes it a whole lot easier to put callers on more defined ranges when they do come along btw)
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 1,989SubscriberProfessional
    First off WA/WB doesn't apply in this spot. If people are drawing, you're ahead, but not WAY ahead. (If you are behind, you are likely way behind, though.)

    Preflop should be bigger. It is a straight raise for value. Even out of position you want to build this pot with the best hand. This will lead to a bigger flop bet as well, and sets up to shove turn.

    Your turn play is fine. There is enough shrug-GII from draws to call off the last little bit.

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