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3 bet and barrel line check (Turn line?)

stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
edited July 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Think this is pretty standard but gona post anyway. Also willing to get into discussions about the spot in general.

1/2 zone on bovada.

V opens BTN to 6, Hero 3 bets BB to 23 with 7h4h, call

Flop (45) Jc, 5s, 3d. Hero bets 25, V calls.

Turn (96) Ah, hero bets 55, V calls,

River (206) Ks, Hero shoves for 140
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Comments

  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Very interested to hear people thoughts on turn and river, what is your value range on both streets?
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Here are my two ideas for turn.

    1) bet like 1/3 pot with a wider range that includes some KK, QQ, KJ for value and have polarized river shove range.

    2) Check 100% OTT and have a check shove range
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I'm leaning towards c/r strat atm
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    Only 125 BBS deep, I'm probably folding preflop. From my experience, button isn't raise/folding, and 74s OOP in a bloated pot with these stack sizes is going to be tough to play.

    I agree that I like a check/shove line with anything with any equity at all (but not nutted hands). I do not like the lead with a draw. We could be stuck folding our equity if he shoves, which is a disaster.

    Our line is very exploitable (lead nuts and near nuts, semi bluff checkraise draws, check/fold air), but is probably not going to be exploited in these games.

    As played, you got the best river card you could without making your hand. Makes sense to fire the third clip. If turn had gone check/check, I'm giving up though.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I'm check shoving nutted hands too
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    I asked this question in Slack, but I'll ask again here and ask you to share here too: What is your range for 3betting preflop?

    We've had discussions that you are much wider in these spots than I am, and that changes the way we need to play the turn. Only 125 BBs deep, I'm going to have a tighter, value-heavy range for 3betting preflop, which doesn't make the ace that bad of a card for me. Basically, I'm rarely in a spot where I have a draw on this flop (A3s really the only hand), so there's no point in checking the flop with that range.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    edited July 2016
    image
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    My 3 bet range here
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    Fold pre, you don't have to fight for every buck.
    if you're V is stabing often/betting his entire range when checked too then I like a c/s line as @dpbuck mentioned, other wise well yeah blah but I guess this a good run out too bluff.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    probably have 99 actually
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Might have some 42s too
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Online 3 bet ranges are different from live ones. IMO this is a standard 3 bet preflop
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    stayinschool said:
    Online 3 bet ranges are different from live ones. IMO this is a standard 3 bet preflop
    I think I disagree with this at this stack size. Button flat calls the 3bet way too often to be opening this IMO. I can get behind this deeper, or if villain will 4bet or fold...
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I don't think stack depth effects it that much. We will easily be able to play over 3 streets. The reason we 3 bet much weaker hands as bluffs out of the BB is because we can call so many hands so profitably out the the BB. Because your 3 bet bluffs are the hands that are just too weak to call these are the hands we use.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I am not 3 betting hands this weak in any other position but BB is a special case
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    stayinschool said:
    Online 3 bet ranges are different from live ones. IMO this is a standard 3 bet preflop
    I doubt that this is "standard" at this stack depth but I haven't played. Online for a very long time and I might be wrong-I actually see a little more play post if we flat vs a wide BTN range since you really should have a strong/balanced range when you flat vs a wider 3! Range OOP......etc..etc..
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    stayinschool said:
    I am not 3 betting hands this weak in any other position but BB is a special case
    But do you really have too?
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Letmewin1 said:
    stayinschool said:
    I am not 3 betting hands this weak in any other position but BB is a special case
    But do you really have too?
    Yea I do think we have to. If we use better hands as 3 bet bluffs then we will not be calling enough hands, because those hands that are good enough to call, we are 3 betting.

    I'm pretty convinced this is standard.

    Either way more interested as to how people would play turn
  • Letmewin1 Posts: 1,238Member
    stayinschool said:
    Letmewin1 said:
    stayinschool said:
    I am not 3 betting hands this weak in any other position but BB is a special case
    But do you really have too?
    Yea I do think we have to. If we use better hands as 3 bet bluffs then we will not be calling enough hands, because those hands that are good enough to call, we are 3 betting.

    I'm pretty convinced this is standard.

    Either way more interested as to how people would play turn
    Guess this thread is not meant for live players since I truly doubt that 3! Will be more +EV than flatting and getting to a flop with an uncapped range BUT I don't want to argue nor do I want to debate since you probably know best.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Yea i mean I definitely don't 3 bet this live haha
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