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The Grind Poker Podcast No.12: Rob Wins 100k and Gives His Thoughts on Cash Game Winrates

Craig Posts: 691Administrator
Rob gives talks a little about his recent tournament score and also address the forum debate regarding annual live winrates.

Episode post at 11AM PT.

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/podcasts/rob-wins-100k-and-gives-his-thoughts-on-cash-game-winrates
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Comments

  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    Great to hear someone communicate accurate useful information to the community. You do a great job -- I enjoy your podcast.

    For a future podcast I'd like to hear what you think your biggest leaks are in poker now? I know in my experience my professional friend and I play games below our skill level due to availability in our poker market. This does provide some challenges. I imagine you have similar issues because of the stakes you play to stay comfortably within your bankroll. For example, one can get easily bored or too comfortable with the stakes. It is hard to stay motivated if you have essentially maxed out a win rate in your regular game, it becomes very routine work.
  • RobFarha Posts: 177Pro
    @quincyjack

    I like this idea. I don't know if I'll do it next episode but will do it at some point as I think it can provide an interesting perspective.

    Will talk about that in the future.
  • lauxen Posts: 95Subscriber
    Another awesome podcast. It's nice to hear someone backing up many of the thoughts I have to myself.

    I do have a question though - You talked some about having a roommate who basically lives at the bellagio, and you yourself seem to mostly play there (afaik).

    Some of the guys I've talked to, however, seem to think that moving around and sniffing out better games is optimal over playing in the same spot every day. (This is obviously pertaining to areas with lots of options, like Vegas or soflo.)

    Is there a reason that you two above-average winning players choose to go to the same room almost every day of the year? Would it not net more money to walk around a bit, or ask friends to text you about better games? I'm sure there's occasionally a ridiculous 2/5 going at a smaller casino within walking distance. Do you monitor bravo, or do you kinda just set up at Bellagio for 6 hours and then leave? Maybe there's just enough action there to justify the loyalty, or maybe your winrate is high enough so that you don't feel a need to shop around?

    I only ask because I live in an area with many options, some of which are nicer than others. The nice rooms obviously have better comps and atmosphere, but that brings way more regs and good players (maybe similar to bellagio?). Some of the smaller rooms can have ridiculously soft games, but they're often hit or miss. Basically, do you think it's worth the effort to seek out soft games around town? Or should I kind of set up shop at one of the nicer venues and work on exploiting the regs?

  • 3aces Posts: 155Subscriber
    What is your roommates opinion of the $500 cap at Bellagio? is the game easier because the players wanting to buy in for $1000 play at other rooms?
  • RobFarha Posts: 177Pro
    edited July 2016
    lauxen said:
    Another awesome podcast. It's nice to hear someone backing up many of the thoughts I have to myself.

    I do have a question though - You talked some about having a roommate who basically lives at the bellagio, and you yourself seem to mostly play there (afaik).

    Some of the guys I've talked to, however, seem to think that moving around and sniffing out better games is optimal over playing in the same spot every day. (This is obviously pertaining to areas with lots of options, like Vegas or soflo.)

    Is there a reason that you two above-average winning players choose to go to the same room almost every day of the year? Would it not net more money to walk around a bit, or ask friends to text you about better games? I'm sure there's occasionally a ridiculous 2/5 going at a smaller casino within walking distance. Do you monitor bravo, or do you kinda just set up at Bellagio for 6 hours and then leave? Maybe there's just enough action there to justify the loyalty, or maybe your winrate is high enough so that you don't feel a need to shop around?

    I only ask because I live in an area with many options, some of which are nicer than others. The nice rooms obviously have better comps and atmosphere, but that brings way more regs and good players (maybe similar to bellagio?). Some of the smaller rooms can have ridiculously soft games, but they're often hit or miss. Basically, do you think it's worth the effort to seek out soft games around town? Or should I kind of set up shop at one of the nicer venues and work on exploiting the regs?

    Thanks.

    In Vegas, I don't think "casino selecting" is too important at 2/5. Prior to my podcast here at CLP, I spent 2-3years playing only at Venetian. I would play 2/5 like 90% of the time and then play the 5/10 whenever it went off and looked alright.

    However now, like you said, I usually play at Bellagio. Bellagio has a 500cap 2/5 game that I think is a good game, but there really isn't too much need to casino select at the 2/5 level as I feel the games are good everywhere. I play more 5/10 now and Bellagio has a 5/10 game every single day so that's an added bonus of being there. I game select it though. It's super, super rare for me to show up to a casino, sit at 2/5 and think "wow, this game is unplayable". There just isn't enough good regs/shortage of recs at this level (anywhere, not just bell) to warrant this kind of thinking.

    I never casino hop here in Las Vegas, but do know some guys that do. For me, I consider that an inefficient use of time and think the drain of 30ish min parking and or walking just isn't really worth it, doubly so because I tend to play shorter sessions. So I do basically just pick a place and go there for 6 hours and that's it. Of course staying shorter/longer if the game is bad/good. I'm all about maximizing the output from my input in poker.

    I also think there is something to be said for home-field advantage. I like being comfortable in the same spot day in and day out and I probably value that more than most. I'm the guy that orders the same meal cooked the same way from the restaurant for years and years because I know I like it. It's part of the reason I feel like I play worse in LA than Vegas. I of course have played at every major room in Vegas and the only argument I would entertain as to what the "best 2/5 game" is, is that you can make slightly more at Wynn because the buy-in cap/ # of true whales is higher there than other places. If you're talking V/Bell/Aria/Caesers 2/5, they are very comparable and I think any mentioned difference is more due to variance regarding the faces in the playerpool than any true difference. I heard people for years saying Venetian was the worst, nittiest 2/5 game in town and couldn't disagree more. They are all so similar.

    In your spot, I'd recommend playing both until you have a feel for both rooms and choose which you like best. If you have a network of friends that text each other about good games (I don't) then of course use that. If you like both rooms equally, split your time and it'll help keep things fresh. I usually go over to Aria when I feel bored with poker as it's something different, although given how nice the new Wynn room is I might be playing more over there.

    Always seek out soft games. If in your situation, one room is soft and one isn't, you should be able to deduce which is the better spot for you :)

    In Vegas, this just isn't the case in my opinion so I pick the same place and basically just play there, which right now happens to be Bellagio.
  • RobFarha Posts: 177Pro
    edited July 2016
    3aces said:
    What is your roommates opinion of the $500 cap at Bellagio? is the game easier because the players wanting to buy in for $1000 play at other rooms?
    Yep. Basically this.

    Bigger, deeper games tend to have better players and this game is a smaller version of Vegas 2/5. The regs in this game (sorry to people reading who know me, but I'm honest) are worse than the regs at Aria/Wynn/Venetian 2/5 in my experience.

    Given that the buyin is 200-500, there are some games you can find yourself in that are playing more like 1/3 than a Vegas 2/5 (everyone has like $300). So knowing 100bb and under is pretty vital here.

    As much as it's baller and cool to be deep as hell in live poker, I much prefer playing 100bb stacks as I am from the online world so it's much more comfortable to me and I think the typical mistakes made by live poker players are severely magnified in 100bb games as opposed to deeper games where loosey-goosey pre and post isn't as bad.

    But yes, this game is "easier", but also smaller.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    @rob

    I have always wondered what that sweet spot is for playing in games where the regs are worse but sacrificing some win rate because of the shorter stacks. I am sill not sure of the answer..

    I like playing 200bbs deep at a $5 blind game.. at 5/10 I like the $1500 buy in at commerce .. Hawaiian garden is good but they allow a $20 straddle and now I back below 100bbs..

    I guess its just what you feel comfy with.

    ww
  • PokerShaman Posts: 60Subscriber
    This is really late to the party, but I am binge-ing your podcast, so I am having thoughts as I go along.

    You left out a big reason why someone grinding for 40 hours per week/2K hours per year isn't going to do as well as someone who plays fewer hours: game selection by time.

    I play in northern California, primarily at one cardroom. If someone was playing five hours per week where I play, probably the best time for them to play would be Friday night from 7 PM to midnight. Most good recreational players who can realistically contemplate becoming pros are likely playing at times that are good. Friday nights, weekends, some week nights (the later in the week, the better).

    There aren't enough prime playing times in the week, though, for someone to play forty full hours of all prime time. A lot of those hours are going to be at times that are less good, with lower win rates.

    So even if a player is super-solid, with the stamina to grind out hours without losing their focus and are super-resistant to tilting, money earned is not going to scale linearly with hours played. A forty-hour grinder is going to play in a lot of worse games than a twenty-hour grinder who chooses their playing time well, and the forty-hour win rate is going to suffer from this.

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