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Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

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Games have been good. 1/2. 5$ button straddle, mandatory. hero neutral image in these two sessions.

#1. About 250$ effective. Hero on button checks 6688T three ways.

Flop 226. 90yr old Omc leads 15$, fish who overplays hands calls. Omc will fold naked 2 to a large raise, fish probably goes with one. What's our plan for max value? Keep all three in or iso fish who's willing to stack off light? Our runner runner live 8 draw isn't very appealing obviously if we go HU.

#2 game pretty passive pre and post, about 300$ effective. Four limpers. Hero raises to 25$ on button with AA4T6ds to .
Flop 8 J T (100$) checks to hero.

I only raised to thin the field as i expected some folds, and occasionally take it down pre. Any less than a pot/near pot bet seems like a spew here, with no FE. should we check, or fire? Obviously a bet will probably clean up our backdoor low draw, and has some FE but we're committed if called. Doubt we can get it in less than a 45%/55% dog.

These seem to some of my awkward spots
Maximizing value with big one way hands from the blind/straddle and checking or stacking off in marginal 45/55 50/50 55/45 flips.


  • BartBart Posts: 5,821AdministratorLeadPro
    In hand #1 I can't see how you cannot raise here. This is big O not 4 card. You could have as many as 5 cards lose you the nut high on the turn. You also have no low draw so if any card below an 8 comes on the turn your equity in the hand goes from like 95% down to at the most 45%.

    2. Seems like this is a check back..
    by 1Dusty
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    edited September 2016

    I would make a small raise then ... I just cant see anyone folding a 2 considering A2 is THE most important cards in BigO... now if you had quad 6s on 662 board i am still making a small raise.. I am only slowplaying if I had say Quads on 66x where "x" is 9 or higher..

    #2 I guess i dont mind your raise but I would really hate being 3 bet ...but as you said game is passive so why not.. On this board I might bet small.. So 3 players called your raise??? This just smashes their calling ranges.. If I think I am not going to get raised then I can see a small bet.. but I doubt you are EVER getting it thru.. So I dont mind just checking back..Yeah as you said you could very well be getting it in with only a flush draw and maybe a backdoor low/flush.. but vil can easily have you covered there too.. On second thought I think I would just take a card..

  • eyehaityou Posts: 288Member
    #1 Many more then 5 cards. 79TJQKA all bring over boats possible. I guess I'm torn between letting two players in with low draws I'll be able to trap three ways, or duces full that can't fold vs building a pot im most likely to only get half of if HU.

    #2. Reasons for checking vs betting? just pot control? I'd likely check this hand if I hadn't raised pre as a 4bb bet has no FE. But there's 50bb in there with 100bb behind.
    If we check, and hit our flush on turn, I don't think we make anything.
    Are we looking for a safe turn to bet or are we just going c/c or fold with this hand?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    edited September 2016
    Hand #1.. So think of the hands that someone would call you with an overpair? Are they likely to have 88A3x? or 88JT9? that makes a big difference . If they have A3 I would imagine they might call.. So that means they would have had to call with exactly A399x, A3TTx, etc... thats a pretty narrow. range.. I think that most players playing a bigger pair than you (with the exception of 8s and 7s those are still low ) will have more high only potential.. So I dont think i am worrying overly too much about those. Its much much more important to get money from the two players likely to have a 2.. Besides.. you think someone is even calling say 88A47 88A57 etc.. on this flop after you raise? Even a small raise??? If you raise to say $40.. You think they are calling with an overpair? I really doubt it..

    Hand #2 I am not pot controlling by checking..I am likely ONLY drawing.. so why charge myself more.. Pot controlling is if I had a value hand that I didnt want to get blown off of.. Here you have a pair of tens, back door low draw (thats not the nuts) backdoor nut flush draw and the front door flush.. thats alot of draws..

    Now if the board was say T38 or even better T28 with two dias I am piling money in.. There I have a much much bigger draw with a made hand that I have a ton of equity.. On that board texture someone is so likely to have hit so hard with two pair a straight that my equity is just too small to drive this..

    I hope this makes sense..
  • eyehaityou Posts: 288Member
    #1 Bart just commented there's five cards to improve someone's hand to beat mine, I was just saying theoretically there's a lot more than that.
    Let's say for arguments sake A275X and A3XXX are villans hands. If we raise both fold(which they did, making me question my play and my read). If we call the turns a 7 giving one villan duces full, decent low and the other made nut low. It's going to be much easier to get chips in, getting half of a large pot vs all of a small one. Just my thoughts here

    #2 i understand not betting small, not wanting to get blown off my draw. I posted I thought that would be a bad play imo. however if we bet 100$, fold out two hands, and get it HU with 50$ in dead money in the pot, even vs a range of absolute monster JJKdQdA with flush blockers to JTXXX for instance, is it 100% the wrong play? Should.i be balancing my play with nfd here?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    I think because they folded you are thinking you made a mistake. I think that is the mistake. the fact that these guys didnt call with the nut low draw and the other one had a 2 is crazy. I would think that is showing that this might not be a good game to play in. normally you should find players happily calling draws for half the pot. Thats why I would always raise there.. I dont want to give them in essence a free card for half the pot..now if you had the nut low draw yourself then maybe in that game I could see slowplaying..

    #2 You can play around with equities in BigO on pro poker tools. I suggest you bookmark it on your phone and computer.. I dont know exactly what they would be in this hand but I believe that you would be getting it in as a big dog.. Basically whenever there is a possible straight on the board I assume someone has it or at least two pair given the 5 card nature of the game. If someone wants to give me a free card to beat them i will take it. now maybe a high straight isnt quite as likely in BigO as in PLO but I am still not going to pile money in when I only have a weak draw.. and someone else is very very likely to have a hand they wont fold...
  • eyehaityou Posts: 288Member
    I use ppt all the time, it's been bookmarked for years. only 5 card equity calculator I've found.
    I hear what your saying. I'm just questioning in an attempt to find the best play, or hear your guys thoughts.
    I'd be more likely to raise hand 1 with a decent low draw I think. So easy to get free rolled with a one way hand, even if it's for two outs.

    I don't think checking hand #2 is bad at all, it's defently the lower variance play.
    I also think a large bet is not terribly bad. If we can fold out all better backdoor low draws, two pair hands, and an occasional 79 i think it might be profitable as well. Probably getting action from sets/fd 60/40 dog, 9Q 50/50, etc.

    Always great to hear your input.

    Balance becomes an issue depending on who's at the table. Saw three plo8 bracelet holders at the same table last week. As well as a couple cash players much better than them. Good games are getting everyone in a seat.

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    edited September 2016
    I am not worrying about a two outer.. and I am not going to try and protect against it either.. that said raising in hand 1 is for value against a 2 and a low draw that might have some other equity too.. especially since you dont have the nut low THATs what you should be protecting against..

    PLO8 players might not understand the equity differences in BigO.. Bart spoke about a perfect example when he was up against another player in the O8 mix tourney w AA2xx double suited vs AAxxx and he just flatted villains 3 bet.. That because in BigO so so much of the equity in realized on the flop that pre flop you cant "gin" a hand.. Many PLO8 players would pile money in pre with AAxxwheel when someone could have them in rough shape after the flop w A2356 or something.. But i would still argue that in general I am just going to take a free card on the second hand.. If no one hit the straight and they dont have anything they will check the turn and you can delay double barrel if you pick up some additional equity and it wont cost you your stack..
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