Comments

• JLBJ Posts: 158Subscriber

  September 2018

  Tough spot, all opponent-dependent. You say he is splashy, but does that apply post-flop, or just pre? Is he the kind of player who would raise KJ here to “see where he’s at”?
  
  Like you said, his value range is narrow. I don’t know if it’s the right play, but my default would be to call and play the turn.
• hustlin Posts: 289Subscriber

  September 2018

  Yah this is always a weird spots with over pairs here.
  As played their is more merit to find a way to get your money in here than say a TAG. since villain is splashier he can do this with a wider range.
  
  Its usually not advised to get it in with 200bbs with just an overpair
  
  I generally with 200bb's would C/C here. depending on turn. I may C/C or X/R.
  by river I usually just X/C or X/F depending on board texture and reads.
• Clock Posts: 1,098Subscriber

  September 2018

  I think it's player dependent, and we think V is donkish we just have to 3bet this flop.
  - We don't have A♦
  - The flop suit distribution is such that J♦ x♦ is possible
  - We not loosing to much basically 9 combos total
  - This flop raise sizing seems weak ...unless he's hand reading well and realizes this is a 3bet pot and we should be drawing almost dead vs his set, etc., but that goes back to my original point - do we think he's donkish or not?? If we do - I think that's giving V too much credit.
  
  So I think we should click it up to like 350 and if he ships - you have to decide if he's the type that's gonna go buck wild with TP+FD type of a hand (probably have to to call off :frown: )
  
  Note: I don't have much experience with Vegas games though, so if you tell me that games are super nitty and nobody would ever raise this flop with Jx in 3bet pot - ok...
• Oback2 Posts: 201SubscriberProfessional

  September 2018 edited September 2018

  3bet larger pre, $70-75. Youre going to be generally merged 3b from the sb as a squeeze, but Start incorporating bluffs even vs EP open, especially if your indicating here that Villian is over folding to 3b.
  
  Against a good player OTB I’d be x’ing aces at an extremely high frequency.
  
  Against a splashy rec, cbetting is fine and the better play.
  
  Folding this flop would be awful, and3betting this flop would be terrible, the only play is to call.
  
• Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber

  September 2018 edited September 2018

  Clock said:

  Note: I don't have much experience with Vegas games though, so if you tell me that games are super nitty and nobody would ever raise this flop with Jx in 3bet pot - ok...

  I was thinking about something like this after I made the post. I think a lot of the players in Vegas are actually fairly good, but somewhat nitty. This player was obviously an out of towner and not a reg.
  In this configuration I could easily be continuation betting A♠ K♠ or some other Ace highs that missed. Now if he called with something like 10♥ J♥ I could see him raising for protection himself. So I don't think its out of the question that he might be betting a Jack here. Any card higher than a Jack and he'd have to slow way down. Now if he has AJ, KJ or QJ thats kind of a different story. I also could be betting something like A♦ Q♦ and a single paired Jack would probably bet to protect against a hand like that also. So after some thought, I do think its completely possible he is betting a Jack.
  
  Now that adds just another wrinkle. Do we just call and let him hang himself if I do put him on a single paired Jack?
  
• Clock Posts: 1,098Subscriber

  September 2018 edited September 2018

  Sonny said:

  [quote="Clock;113389"]Note: I don't have much experience with Vegas games though, so if you tell me that games are super nitty and nobody would ever raise this flop with Jx in 3bet pot - ok...
  
  
  .....
  
  I was thinking about something like this after I made the post. I think a lot of the players in Vegas are actually fairly good, but somewhat nitty. This player was obviously an out of towner and not a reg.
  In this configuration I could easily be continuation betting A♠ K♠ or some other Ace highs that missed. Now if he called with something like 10♥ J♥ I could see him raising for protection himself. So I don't think its out of the question that he might be betting a Jack here. Any card higher than a Jack and he'd have to slow way down. Now if he has AJ, KJ or QJ thats kind of a different story. I also could be betting something like A♦ Q♦ and a single paired Jack would probably bet to protect against a hand like that also. So after some thought, I do think its completely possible he is betting a Jack.
  
  

  Well then I think you have to 3bet this flop.
  Assuming a typical splashy rec - I think a lot of them would "put you on AK" and if you just click it back might have trouble folding TP (obv never ever fold TP+FD, NFD or any combo draw)
  
  Click it to 350 and when he calls, put will be 825 with just ~550 left.
  You can bet stupid small on the turn (250-300) and he might feel that he's committed with a Jx
  
• Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber

  September 2018

  @clock and everyone else thanks for your replies...
  
  I did actually wind up 3 betting to $420 total. I chose that sizing because if he is on a draw I want him to be the one making a mistake by not getting a very good price to call with his draws. Now if he is on a draw do I want the call? Sure, but I also don't mind just taking it down. I also thought betting any smaller might lead him to shove and not just call, and at the time, I thought the spot was a 3 bet/fold. The more I think about it now though, I think once I 3 bet and range him on mostly draws or single paired Jacks I probably have to call a shove.
  
  I really don't like flatting his $170 because if he is on a draw and a Jack, Diamond, 6 or 3 comes off, I'm probably just check/folding. Thats could be as many as 20 cards, depending on what he has. I generally think it's, for lack of a better word, "dumb" to just let them get there for free.
  
  I thought the reraise on the flop was always the beat play, but my biggest question was, and still is, what if he shoves? Through discussing it here I think calling the shove is the best option, if its not then I shouldn't 3 bet. In game however I was pretty convinced I should fold if he shoves.
  
  
• Oback2 Posts: 201SubscriberProfessional

  September 2018

  3betting this flop is really really bad.
• Sonny Posts: 390Subscriber

  September 2018

  Oback2 said:

  3betting this flop is really really bad.

  Ok, why? I felt like it was the best option as I thought I had the best hand. I want to protect my equity and possibly get worse to call. However, if I happen to take it down on the flop, I think thats just fine.
  I would really like to know your opinion as to why 3 betting this flop is bad.
  Im not attacking in anyway btw, just courious. Personally I think just calling is option I would choose last, but I would like to hear your thought process.
  
  As it was he folded to my 3 bet and I profited over 40BB with one pair without seeing a turn.
  
  
• CycleV Posts: 970Subscriber

  September 2018

  His raise isn't getting anyone with a made hand to fold, so it probably isn't a semibluff, nor is it building much of a pot with a hand like 54s. I'd look at it as some kind of feeler bet, and read him as QJ- and lower PP, occasionally total air. I could see clicking it back to $300ish, or just calling and leading most turns.
• hustlin Posts: 289Subscriber

  September 2018

  Like the raise. Based on what u told about the villain this is the best choice. Sizing is fine.
  When u 3bet u almosf always have to call off.
  
  Jx dd makes up large portion of range . So u gta call it off.

  Sonny said:

  @clock and everyone else thanks for your replies...
  
  I did actually wind up 3 betting to $420 total. I chose that sizing because if he is on a draw I want him to be the one making a mistake by not getting a very good price to call with his draws. Now if he is on a draw do I want the call? Sure, but I also don't mind just taking it down. I also thought betting any smaller might lead him to shove and not just call, and at the time, I thought the spot was a 3 bet/fold. The more I think about it now though, I think once I 3 bet and range him on mostly draws or single paired Jacks I probably have to call a shove.
  
  I really don't like flatting his $170 because if he is on a draw and a Jack, Diamond, 6 or 3 comes off, I'm probably just check/folding. Thats could be as many as 20 cards, depending on what he has. I generally think it's, for lack of a better word, "dumb" to just let them get there for free.
  
  I thought the reraise on the flop was always the beat play, but my biggest question was, and still is, what if he shoves? Through discussing it here I think calling the shove is the best option, if its not then I shouldn't 3 bet. In game however I was pretty convinced I should fold if he shoves.
  
  
• citrex Posts: 9Subscriber

  September 2018

  Hello,
  
  If we consider a range of
  
  55-44,54s,AdQd,KdQd,AdJd,KdJd,QdJd,AdTd,KdTd,JdTd,Ad9d,Jd9d,8d7d,7d6d
  
  we would have a little less than 40% equity against it.
  
  Even if we consider all the Adxd we would have around 42% equity.
  
  If we are willing to raise and then call a shove, wouldn't be better to just call down and give him space to overplay/bluff himself?
  
  I am not seeing the Villain to fold any combo draw (pair + FD, gutshot + FD, OESD + FD, 2 overcards + FD).
  
  It is a 3bet pot so our hero can just have a Set of Jacks, Overpair, or AdKd/Qd or KdQd when he raises. This range against the first range I gave to Villain we have 42% equity against the villain range.
  
  Wouldn't be better to just call on the flop?

  

  

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