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Plo questions

VernonJones Posts: 179Subscriber
edited April 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
First I have a general question about what to do when you have a player who is raising 50% of the hands played at a loose table where 3 bets are getting called multiway and stacks are say 200 bb deep and higher. How light can you 3 bet him knowing you are going to have other players come along ?

Next question is what to you do in 3 bet pots when your heads up or say 2 players and all you have is overpair or just top pair and your first to act or it gets checked to you ? Let's say on fairly dry boards like q82r or j52ss and you have Kkxx. Assume stack sizes are similar to first question.

Comments

  • khalwatkhalwat Posts: 997Subscriber
    VernonJones said:
    First I have a general question about what to do when you have a player who is raising 50% of the hands played at a loose table where 3 bets are getting called multiway and stacks are say 200 bb deep and higher. How light can you 3 bet him knowing you are going to have other players come along ?
    Based on your description of the game, I don't see any reason to 3-bet him light at all. Yes, he's opening 50% of hands, but he's not folding to 3-bets, and neither are a decent number of other people.

    So don't 3-bet him light at all. 3-bet him for value with nutty hands.
    VernonJones said:
    Next question is what to you do in 3 bet pots when your heads up or say 2 players and all you have is overpair or just top pair and your first to act or it gets checked to you ? Let's say on fairly dry boards like q82r or j52ss and you have Kkxx. Assume stack sizes are similar to first question.
    Whether it's a limped pot, or a raised pot, or a 3-bet pot doesn't make as much of a difference as the SPR that you end up with seeing the flop. So pay attention to SPR when making these decisions more than whether it was 3-bet, etc.

    Anyway, given the scenario you presented, it's very different to be first to act than it is to have it be checked to you, imo... and it also matters to an extent who and where the pre flop 3-bettor is.

    On those dry-ish boards, in position, I don't mind betting, but I'm expecting given the way you've described the pre flop play, that you're going to get called a lot -- and fairly light.
  • VernonJones Posts: 179Subscriber
    They are going to call a lot which always makes me weary of 3 betting much at all. Even with nutty hands you are going to have less than 2 pair and less than 9 out draws often so you are bloating up a pot which is going to be tough to win.
  • khalwatkhalwat Posts: 997Subscriber
    VernonJones said:
    They are going to call a lot which always makes me weary of 3 betting much at all. Even with nutty hands you are going to have less than 2 pair and less than 9 out draws often so you are bloating up a pot which is going to be tough to win.
    over the long haul, your range still crushes theirs, and you will win money pushing preflop equities. It will be higher variance, though. If your 3-bets get the pots less multi-way, that helps too.

    But if they are never folding, and you prefer a lower variance style, you can just call with hands that play really well multi-way like suited rundowns, and go from there.

    You'll just be sacrificing some long term equity for less short term variance.
  • VernonJones Posts: 179Subscriber
    What do you think are correct hands to 3 bet in these games? Would you 3 bet KKxx? How about QQAx? JJTT? Akqj?

    Assume you are way ahead of opening raises range but very little chance he's folding and most likely you are playing the hand 4 or 5 handed.
  • I would rather have suited rundowns than pairs. Especially when your 3 bets are getting called multiway.
  • JCW Posts: 591Subscriber
    VernonJones said:
    First I have a general question about what to do when you have a player who is raising 50% of the hands played at a loose table where 3 bets are getting called multiway and stacks are say 200 bb deep and higher.
    What to do? Be thankful and bring money.
  • khalwatkhalwat Posts: 997Subscriber
    VernonJones said:
    What do you think are correct hands to 3 bet in these games? Would you 3 bet KKxx? How about QQAx? JJTT? Akqj?

    Assume you are way ahead of opening raises range but very little chance he's folding and most likely you are playing the hand 4 or 5 handed.
    So as a caveat, I think PLO is a much more player-dependent and table dependent game than NLHE, but in general...

    If you're playing a game where your 3-bets end up with 4-5 callers consistently, then look to 3-bet hands that play really well multi-way. Good rundowns, hands that are suited to the ace, and when it comes to AAxx, KKxx, and even QQxx, pay close attention to the quality of your sidecards. NLHE players are trained to think "OMG Aces" but there's a huge difference between a hand like AA93 rainbow and a hand like AAJTds... especially in terms of playability.

    I will say that the game you're describing sounds absolutely fantastic. I wouldn't get frustrated, I'd just bring lots of money, and pound them relentlessly.
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