Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

Hopped up to $10-$20 Value own line? (Podcast 5/3/16)

BartBart Posts: 5,949AdministratorLeadPro
edited May 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
So over the past few weeks, I've found my self playing a little sloppy and over aggressive in some spots so I actually jumped UP to a decent $10-$20 game last night to regain some of my full ring discipline. I explain more about that on this week's podcast.

$10-$20 Commerce, 9PM Saturday night. Two pretty big spots at the table. V1 is unknown late 20s early 30s guy who sits with over $10k. Looks and acts the part of a pro, that's all I know about him.

$3900 effective. Hero brand new to the table and raises to $70 UTG with 9 9. UTG1, one of the spots with $5k calls, and Villain in MP2 3bets to $300. Folded to Hero who calls, UTG folds.

FLOP: 9 3 3

Hero checks, V1 bets $400. Hero calls, figuring this your pro will continue value betting overpairs and barreling off on scare cards. This flop fairs to be a multi barrel board.

TURN: 5

Hero checks, V1 checks behind.

RIVER A

Hero?
Tagged:
«13

Comments

  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    edited May 2016
    Checkraises all day

    OR if he doesn't know and think you could be dump, blockbetting might be an option. Would be disaster of course if the guy only calls AQ/AK.
    Blockbetting though might induce MORE bluffs than a check!!
  • ActionTwin Posts: 146SubscriberProfessional
    Check raise. He should have AK a ton and likely won't raise if you bet (unless you think he's capable of raising to try to get you off a chop). And I don't see him folding AK to a check raise very often because he can easily put you on the same hand trying to get him off a chop and all he really loses to is 99.
  • DrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    Not a bad spot for an overbet. Pro may fold to ✔️⬆️ and we all have a hard time folding AK to a single bet here even if it is 1.7x pot or something. That is a shove here.
  • ekofler Posts: 8Subscriber
    Lead flop 350ish. We know he's firing 100% when checked to. Very good chance he might check turn after you call his flop bet, being a bit suspicious. So start building pot, lead $350 flop(chance of getting raised), probably a good player so most likely he calls, lead turn $675(he calls, he's strong), river value nation!
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    edited May 2016
    I used to always c/r these spots but against a pro I think it's just really hard to get that called. I think just betting around pot is best, even an overbet is a little too suspicious to me. It's just a really hard spot to get value because even though that card smacks his range you both know how hard it smacks his range so you leading out for pot or more and especially c/ring becomes pretty suspicious. Like it is extremely obvious that if you lead river large or c/r you are repping better than AK for value and people just really never bluff these spots either.

    That being said people still can't fold AK here sometimes. I feel like the perfect decision is very player dependent but here are some of what I think are the better options.

    * lead river large (around pot) - Think even a good pro will have a hard time folding AK.

    *Min c/r - While this doesn't make sense and makes it really hard to rep a bluff some of the worse pros will just find it hard to fold AK on such a dry board to a minraise.

    *blocker bet river to induce - Maphacks suggested this and I like. Against the right pro I think this is by far best. In terms of sizing 350-500 depending again on the pro. If raised I would decided how much to 3bet based on his sizing. However we need the right pro and doesn't seem like we know this guy well enough to put this into play yet.

    *problem with c/r is that it is almost always the nuts as this spot almost never gets bluff and that he is also likely to not bet that big when he does bet.

    Another thing to note is that while V has AK a lot here he also has a lot of weaker Ax. He might have some AJ, AQ and probably a mix of small suited aces too. I think we have to take this into play. Not only will those hands be less likely to pay off river but they will also bet smaller as a river value bet. Some of the small Ax may just check back.

    Based on this I feel like leading the river for close to pot is just best. Ax will have a hard time folding, if he happens to have A5s he may raise us and it stops him from just checking back small Ax and also betting 35% of pot when he does decided to value bet his Ax. I feel like this is a reasonably sizing to use when we do want to bluff a missed FD or something.

    *against a good pro I think c/r is too obviously and just like always the nuts. I do think it is a very good exploitable spot to bluff because nobody ever bluffs it and V is almost always betting river. If I had KQss I would be c/r river. Not only do we block AK, AQ but it is just such a good spot to make an exploitable bluff raise. Also, if V happens to check/back you win a SD a reasonably % of the time.

    Peter

  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    edited May 2016
    For all who suggest leading big OTR. This looks at least as strong as check/raising where we can at least pretend to turn sth. into a bluff vs decent opponent. I wonder if anyone had ever made an donk overbet bluff with like 77 in the history of poker.

    Xr makes way way more sense for value and as a bluff because we always have at least a pair here and be good sometimes if it goes xx

    Furthermore I think villain won't cbet A high always but he will probably cbet all his worse hands such as k high or q high and we give him the chance to bluff those 0 showdown hands OTR
  • Rocketman74Rocketman74 Posts: 451Subscriber
    edited May 2016
    stayinschool said:
    I used to always...

    Peter
    Great post! It's like you took the words right out of my head (but put them down better than I could ever do.)
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    maphacks said:
    For all who suggest leading big OTR. This looks at least as strong as check/raising where we can at least pretend to turn sth. into a bluff vs decent opponent. I wonder if anyone had ever made an donk overbet bluff with like 77 in the history of poker.

    Xr makes way way more sense for value and as a bluff because we always have at least a pair here and be good sometimes if it goes xx

    Furthermore I think villain won't cbet A high always but he will probably cbet all his worse hands such as k high or q high and we give him the chance to bluff those 0 showdown hands OTR
    I'm not donk overbeting river I think i'm betting like 80% pot. Also we have missed FD's that can't win at SD we would want to play this way. Why would we be turning a hand like 77 into a bluff.
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    Oh how could I not see the busted fd...that makes leading as good as xr I guess. Think I am still xr expect him to bet his Ax most likely
  • BartBart Posts: 5,949AdministratorLeadPro
    What about min raising to $2000 at the end? Gets called more than a ship?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    so he will use the ace as a bluff and generally does a good player bet ace high on the flop? nope.

    so I would have bet pretty small on the flop. I think since he doesnt know you is young probably more likely a tourney player since ca st champ started use his tendencies against him

    then if he calls bet again again on the smaller side. then you decide to check when the ace hits the river. there he is going to bluff at it of he was floating you and if he did have an ace he will value bet it. then I would min check raise.

  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    I would bet this turn. He is not going to continue bluffing with A highs. His bluffs on the turn are draws only. Also we are repping so few value hands with a donk bet on tun, that I like it when we do have one of these very few value hands. Because we rep so narrow he is never folding a good value hand on turn.



  • aaron Posts: 498Subscriber
    iamallin said:
    I would bet this turn. He is not going to continue bluffing with A highs. His bluffs on the turn are draws only. Also we are repping so few value hands with a donk bet on tun, that I like it when we do have one of these very few value hands. Because we rep so narrow he is never folding a good value hand on turn.



    We raise pre, call a 3b w/ a whale behind, and donk turn. How are we repping few value hands? I think this line reeks of value. If we donk turn we fold out the majority of bluffs of which a 10/20 pro is going to have a ton of. When this guy has some random air hand like K8s or A high you think he's just giving up here all the time? Obv player dependent but I think this is a good board to triple given the presence of draws and a strong range advantage.

    River play seems like a cr is best to both keep in bluffs and get value from Ax. This card is not good for our range and since we are pretty readless we should be taking a more balanced approach here and checking. As an aside this could be a cool spot to overbet a hand like TT/JJ if we get to the river like this.
  • iamallin Posts: 1,173SubscriberProfessional
    I mean we rep very few nutted value hands. Most of our medium value range is actually weaker than his 3 bet medium value range. We do have nutted hands whereas he doesn't have as many of them. But the actual combos of nuts on that board is so low that he still has a stronger value range than ours on this board.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I don't like the idea of a turn lead. I just don't see the point. We have no way of knowing that he will stop bluffing and any value hand that bet flop will keep betting. We kill any chance of getting a raise in later.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    aaron said:
    iamallin said:
    I would bet this turn. He is not going to continue bluffing with A highs. His bluffs on the turn are draws only. Also we are repping so few value hands with a donk bet on tun, that I like it when we do have one of these very few value hands. Because we rep so narrow he is never folding a good value hand on turn.



    We raise pre, call a 3b w/ a whale behind, and donk turn. How are we repping few value hands? I think this line reeks of value. If we donk turn we fold out the majority of bluffs of which a 10/20 pro is going to have a ton of. When this guy has some random air hand like K8s or A high you think he's just giving up here all the time? Obv player dependent but I think this is a good board to triple given the presence of draws and a strong range advantage.

    River play seems like a cr is best to both keep in bluffs and get value from Ax. This card is not good for our range and since we are pretty readless we should be taking a more balanced approach here and checking. As an aside this could be a cool spot to overbet a hand like TT/JJ if we get to the river like this.
    Why would we ever overbet a hand like TT or JJ here? We have much better hands to bluff with.
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Bart said:
    What about min raising to $2000 at the end? Gets called more than a ship?
    What if he only bets 600, which I think he would a lot with his value? Then we raise to 1200-1300. I think just leading for 1300-1400 is better.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,949AdministratorLeadPro
    I checked on the river and he bet $1000. Whats the play now?

    Bart
  • stayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Bart said:
    I checked on the river and he bet $1000. Whats the play now?

    Bart
    like 2150
  • ZacharyFreeman Posts: 29Member
    The flop check should be done with this hand quite often. It allows a)him to put pressure on your range checking range which is most often AQ, AK, etc. b) it allows him to catch up by making 2nd best hand with KQs JTs etc.
    Turn check once we check is best. Its consistent with the bluff catching portions of our range , AK, AQ.
    River I would lead. I would lead for the following reasons. The vast majority of your xc flop, turn xx range is going to be AK, AQ. On this river your range is now far ahead of his so we can't expect him to continue his bluffs much nor will he value bet any hand worse than AX. We have so few bluffs in this spot that our sizing should be small. It allows him to hero lighter. He is unlikely to bluff raise given he capped his range checking the turn but he has an easy value raise with AK.
    As played, I would xr in the 4k neighborhood.
Sign In or Register to comment.